Facts for Stanton Friedman: Exposing Michael Horn's lies told during the debate on X-Zone radio show

Saturday, 14 November 2015 13:48
Meila Nichae
Meila Nichae

Zon Staff

This article is specifically written to inform the Physicist, Lecturer and UFO Researcher, Stanton Friedman (SF) regarding the many lies told by Michael Horn (MH) during their 2nd debate on Meier case on the X-Zone radio show, aired on November 11, 2015. I have chosen the word 'lies' for MH rather than 'inaccurate' or 'flawed' claims or arguments is because all of the facts that I am going to present below was known to him since last year and some even before that. Despite being aware of all the facts that clearly and demonstrably refutes his wild assertions, he chose to make so many of the same misleading and deceitful claims again and again, along with the deliberate suppression of some crucial information which we will see in a moment.

This article is specifically written to inform the Physicist, Lecturer and UFO Researcher, Stanton Friedman (SF) regarding the many lies told by Michael Horn (MH) during their 2nd debate on Meier case on the X-Zone radio show, aired on November 11, 2015. I have chosen the word 'lies' for MH rather than 'inaccurate' or 'flawed' claims or arguments is because all of the facts that I am going to present below was known to him since last year and some even before that. Despite being aware of all the facts that clearly and demonstrably refutes his wild assertions, he chose to make so many of the same misleading and deceitful claims again and again, along with the deliberate suppression of some crucial information which we will see in a moment.
 

1. Prophecies and Predictions


Around 10 min. into Part 1 of the interview, SF (with a little help from me) points to MH about the fact that the original documents of so-called predictions doesn't exist and also that many of them have only been published after the events occurred. MH, then in response, points to the specific information that can be verifiably published by Meier on planets Mars and Mercury.

Mars:

On planet Mars, MH at 16:50 min. says (verbatim) about Meier's prediction made in 1976 (contact report 60) that:

"..scientists will discover that there is more water on Mars than they even can imagine; there are small fauna and flora life forms and the environment is hostile to life - 1976. We then in 2008 discovered why there is water, subsequently we discovered there is more water than thought. We discovered microorganisms and we discovered that the soil there has substantial amounts of perchlorate making it hostile to life."

The idea that there is or could be water on Mars has been around for centuries, see this Wikipedia page. Based on the data collected from satellites and ground based telescopic observations, several science papers and news articles that report some degree of evidence that supports the ‘Water on Mars’ theory were published decades before Meier wrote about it in 1976. Even the spacecraft Mariner 9 that reached Mars in 1971, 5 years before Meier "predicted," has 'spotted evidence of flowing water sometime in the ancient past,' which led to intense speculations that there could still be water on Mars today. Given this context, it is totally natural to expect water on Mars. It would only be extraordinary if Meier at that time were to say that there would be no water on Mars that later turns to be true (which it didn't).

Also predicting that Mars has much more water than imagined by scientists is like predicting - scientists would find more number of stars and galaxies exist in the universe than they imagined. Extremely vague.

MH says that Meier’s prediction of Mars harboring micro-organisms has been fulfilled. If it would have been found, it would be the greatest discovery ever and the whole world would go frenzy. But no such discovery was ever announced. Wonder what news is MH reading?

MH claims that the discovery of perchlorates that is detrimental to life in Martian soil corroborates Meier's prediction. But Meier never predicted that ‘perchlorates’ would ever be found in Martian soil. All he said (in CR 60, 1976) was that – ‘there are also surprises in the character of the ground and the nature of the microworld’ – which can’t be anymore vague than that. He also said that ‘faunic and floric forms of life are existing on mars, even though this planet destroys other forms of life by its contrary to life nature.’ So he essentially says that Mars environment provides only for some forms of life to survive and not every life. First, no life was ever detected or predicted with high likelihood by scientists ever on Mars because from the observations made through telescopes and orbiters, it has become clear that Mars is not in anyway similar to Earth regarding habitability. And second, isn't it how life generally evolves? Only species that can make it in the given environment survives. If the environment is not conducive, then no life would ever be produced.

For additional analysis, see BMFURO/CR 60.

Mercury:

After Mars, MH cites the so-called corroboration on planet Mercury. He says:

"But you go back to 1976 again and Meier asks why does the surface of planet Mercury contract- a specific scientific question pretty unusual for a so-called Swiss farmer in 1976 and the alleged ET woman says - because of the core of the planet. It may have been easy to her but it took 32 years until NASA 'discovered it.'"
I have already shown on my website BMUFOR/CR 66 that this fact has already been known 2 years before Meier predicted it. 

When MH was reciting this, Stan interrupted him and pointed to him what I have earlier pointed to Stan, which is that this information was already known before - which led MH quickly jump to a few other supposed corroborations. 

Jupiter moon, Io:

MH says the following based on the information in the 115th contact report that supposedly occurred on October 19, 1978:

"Io is the most volcanically active body in the solar system. It's ejecta composed largely of ionized sulfur dust particles. It is a matter of projection of these particles up into the atmosphere, those that don't escape the moon result in covering the moon of Io in a very smooth surface. He described the speed of that."

On BMUFOR/CR 115, we have already documented rebuttals by the skeptical organization IIG and Stuart Robbins of Pseudoastronomy, that reveals that all of the above information has already been known several months before Meier supposedly predicted them. IIG even has shown that Meier's information on the speed and height of Io's volcanic plumes is erroneous.

Europa:

MH also says the following based on the information from 115th contact, Oct 19, 1978: 

"He described that Europa was encrusted in ice."

The exact sentence that Meier spoke in CR 115 is this -  "If I remember correctly, you both told me; I don’t know any more whether you or Ptaah, that the moon Io is exactly the large opposite to the moon Europa, that namely there on the moon Europa, the masses of water had not evaporated and changed but have frozen into a gigantic armour of ice."

The fact that Europa is made of ice is already known at least since 1957. This 1973 science paper - Infrared Spectra of the Galilean Satellites of Jupiter - lists all relevant studies made on Europa's ice since 1957. Moreover Meier is incorrect if he means that the entire moon has frozen into ice. Because the scientific consensus for quite a long time is that there is strong evidence for a deep global ocean beneath Europa's icy crust, which Meier/Plejaren strangely never mentioned.

Neptune rings:

MH further said the following based on the information from CR 182, Feb 3, 1983:

"He also described that Neptune had rings."
In CR 182, Meier mentions that a ring exists around Neptune just like all the giant planets of the solar system.  Even though scientists after the discovery of rings around Uranus in 1977 were specifically looking for rings around Neptune, have only finally confirmed its existence around Neptune in 1989. 

But the obvious next question is - Did Meier first publish this before 1989?

As it turns out, based on the analysis I long ago presented at BMUFOR/CR 182, Meier only published this for the first time in 1993 in a book ‘Existentes Lebens Im Universum’ on pgs. 94-95. 
  
Even though I have made MH aware of all of the above irrefutable facts, he chose to ignore them and is still trying to mislead people by claiming (at 19:12 min.) that - "..all of this was  published before the Voyager got there, verifiably." 

Sulfur ring around Jupiter

MH at 19:20 min. (Part 1) says the following after presenting the above "scientifically accurate" prophetic information:

"The skeptics at CFI-west/IIG tried to debunk this and they ended up corroborating it because they also show that one of the facts in there about a torus of Jupiter being composed of sulfur ions was not known until over a year after NASA had corroborated Meier's original stuff. We have this stuff. This is why the skeptics try to say - oh it was known - but they leave out something else."

What MH is pointing to regarding skeptics ended up corroborating Meier stuff is that IIG have cited a March 12, 1979 article that talks about a ring around Jupiter, which according to MH was 3 days after Wendelle Stevens was given this information by Meier on March 9. But MH, even after being made aware of the rebuttal provided by Stuart Robbins on the fact that this information was already known as far as in 1977, has deliberately chose to ignore it. For more on this, see BMUFOR/CR 115.

Atom bomb-Ozone link:

At around 27 min. (Part 1), MH talks about a "new discovery" on the link between Atom bomb explosions and ozone layer depletion supposedly made for the first time in 1988. However we have many times earlier have shown on BMUFOR/CR 7 that this information was already known in 1974, a year before Meier supposedly predicted it in 1975.

1958 and 1987 prophecies:


MH, in Part 2 at around 10:50 min., cites the following prophecies supposedly published by Meier in 1958 and 1987 as being fulfilled.

1958 -  Two Iraq wars by father and son US presidents, AIDS, fanatical islamicists bloody revenge
1987 - destruction of WTC, rise of fanatics of islam and their illegal immigration to Europe

However, he doesn't mention the fact that most of these were only published long after the events occurred in 2002 and 2005 respectively. And regarding the prediction of radical islamicists overtaking Europe and illegal migration, we have already addressed that nonsense here.

NSA-Microsoft:

At around 37 min. in Part 2, MH says the following:

"About NSA and all, I published it on my website before Snowden did. Meier and Plejaren explained the whole thing about NSA, Microsoft, the computers, 2 years before Snowden did. Again! it’s been up there, its dated and all that."

Here MH is referring to the information published by Meier in CR 440 (Jan 15, 2007). The fact of the matter is that this claim that NSA had backdoor access to Microsoft has already been made since 1997, a decade before Meier "predicted" it.

 

1.1 Meier has unlimited access to scientific information


Whenever skeptics point out that the prophecies or predictions, which Meier, FIGU and MH has been promoting as being fulfilled, are in fact have already been known or occurred before, the usual tactic of MH is to claim that since Meier is living in some rural part of Switzerland he can't have access to scientific literature from which he would have copied as has been suggested. He played the same card with SF at 19:50 min. (Part 1), where he says the following:

"I want to acknowledge something. It doesn't mean that Meier is always the first person to know something. But there are people that theorized. But Meier never had nor could he ever had access to the theoretical obscure stuff  that was published in a paper in a University without the internet, without search engine." 
  
SF, at around 21:30 min. immediately responded by saying that there has been several people/followers around Meier since the beginning, who would have passed on the scientific information, to Meier, which they have access to. SF raised a very important and legitimate question, which rarely has been raised by the radio show hosts who interviews MH. As it turns out, the evidence (see below) I presented extensively on mywebsite, beyond reasonable doubt indicates that Meier has unlimited of access to any kind of scientific information, even the most "obscure" stuff, as MH loves to call it.

  • Meier himself states (verbatim) that he has been 'learning constantly through professional books, professional articles in newspapers and magazines, as well as through professional television broadcasts.'
  • Meier and his group has been frequently visiting at least a nearby book store and has been purchasing several books related to 'space, science, history, photography, astronomy,.. .' 

Even though this information has been shared with MH long ago, he chose to ignore it and still denies that Meier has access to any scientific information, essentially contradicting the facts disclosed by Meier himself.

 

1.2 Sequentially numbered contacts


Towards the end of the show (Part 2, 43:00 min.) SF, after listening to MH's claims on "fulfilled" predictions, has concluded his part of the interview by saying:

"I am not satisfied that’s completely true Michael! Look, I have been getting a lot of stuff. People  sending me stuff. And I am not at all satisfied about all this prediction stuff. You seem to be totally satisfied. Billy has never said anything that wasn’t true, I guess, you feel."

To which MH responded as follows:

"I don’t ever find that he lied, not to me and not anywhere in the material. A man after 60 something years of publishing material, he has never told a lie. We got cynics and skeptics, who want to tell you that he published things afterwards but they can’t figure out how it would have been possible for him to go back into every piece of paper disseminated throughout Europe and US and start to backdate it, before the internet. This is why these people are traitors to humanity. They sow seeds of ridiculous doubt and then when you look into it you would go - he couldn’t have done it. I mean, we have the copyrights, we got the documents. We can prove it." 

MH, on this same topic, has earlier responded (23:47 min. of Part 1) as follows:

"What most people don't know is that a lot of what we refer to as the prophetic accurate information is included in conversations in sequentially numbered contacts, if you will, that now number over 620."

What MH is saying is that the SF's implication that Meier may have backdated information - inserting or editing information in old contact reports - is simply impossible because Meier has sequentially numbered each sentence published in his contact reports. So if Meier had deceitfully inserted any new stuff, one could easily trace it out by comparing that document with the older ones. So MH concludes that SF's implication 'isn't been substantiated by the facts' (24:45 min., Part 1).

Are the facts really so, as mentioned by MH?
Hasn't been there not even one example of this form of seeming fraud where the predictions have been deceptively added in contact reports, there by giving them different verse/sentence numbers?

As it turns out, the facts are exactly opposite to what MH has been claiming for so long. As a matter of fact, we have documented dozens and dozens of such examples where new information with different verse numbers has been added. We in fact discovered that nearly 6,000 verses/sentences have been newly added in latest edition of contact notes, which are totally missing from the older editions.

As an example lets not go any further than MH's own website and his own claim of a fulfilled prediction - the 5,100 year old Iceman. The basic story behind this corroboration article is that MH claims that Meier has predicted (CR 239, 1991) the real cause of death - ARROW hit in the back - of a some 5,000 year old Iceman buried in Alps mountains, nearly a decade or at least 5 years before scientists discovered it in the year 2001. As evidence, MH cites the following verse spoken by the alleged ET Ptaah:

Ptaah: 
574. His death happened at that time in such a way that he fell caused by an epileptic fit –and was severely injured by one of his own arrows when he fell on his back, just at the moment when a primeval ice storm started.

So according to MH, if we were to open the older edition(s), we would find this same unaltered information. But as it turns out, it has been fabricated. The above reference is from the 3rd edition contact notes Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontaktberichte 6 published in 2006 and also from the 2nd edition contact notes Semjase-Kontakt-Berichte volume 13, 2nd reprint published after 2001. Now, the following information is from older 2nd edition contact notes Semjase-Kontakt-Berichte volume 13, 1st print originally published in 1996:

Ptaah: 
573. His death happened at that time in such a way that he fell caused by an epileptic fit, just at the moment when a primeval ice storm started.

As you can see 'ARROW' cause has been newly added after it was discovered by scientists in 2001.  This is just one example among many. Even though MH and FIGU have been made aware of this information in 2014, they still continue to claim the James Randi's $1,000,000 paranormal challenge because of Meier's "successful" prediction on the 5,100 year old iceman. More information on this sequentially numbered contacts, available on this page.

 

2. Photos

 

 

2.1 Space and Time travel pictures
 
In response to SF's claim made at around 34 min. (Part 1) that a lot of Meier's pictures turned out to be images from NASA and other sources, MH responded by saying that Plejaren/Meier have already stated in 1978 that these photos have been manipulated by third parties and should no longer be considered as Meier's originals. 
 
First, neither Meier nor Plejaren has ever claimed that in 1978. If MH argues otherwise, he better provide evidence of that documentation. I am most certain, he can't. Second, MH is deliberately lying and trying to suppress the obvious fact that nearly 40 pictures from Meier's purported deep space journey has been and still are being published TODAY in the FIGU co-founder and Core Group member Guido Moosbrugger's book Und sie fliegen doch!/And still they fly (1991, 2001, 2004, 2012) and also in the 3rd edition contact notes Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontaktberichte volumes 2 and 3, originally published in 2002 and 2003 respectively. These photos are likewise available for sale.

What is so special about these photos is that Meier, in 2005, has claimed that these photos have been verified and authenticated by the Plejaren ET Ptaah to be unfalsified and genuine. Of course, MH never mentions this fact ever as this would make him lose both his and Meier's credibility instantly.

Following are the scans of pages from Und sie fleigen doch! book showing 8 Meier pictures, which were defended by Guido in the book as genuine.

Und sie fliegen doch! (2012) - Những hình 67-69

 

Und sie fliegen doch! (2012) - photos 70-73

Following are scans, containing 31 pictures are from Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontaktberichte volumes 2 and 3. 
 

 

 

 

 

 
 
On my website BMUFOR/Photos and videos, we have analysed nearly 20 of these pictures and found all of them to be images taken from NASA documentaries, illustrations, movies, TV shows, etc.


2.2 Beamship photos

MH at around 37:30 min. (Part 1) claims that Meier's beamships photos have never been shown to be fakes. But organizations like Ground Saucer Watch (GSW), ICUFON (Intercontinental UFO Galactic Spacecraft Research and Analytic Network) and others reportedly have found evidence of hoax.

 

 

 


Even Wendelle himself found that a couple of Meier photos (see above), where Meier's group members can be seen in the foreground with the UFO in the background, are double exposures. What is Meier's excuse? He claims that Semjase has accidentally damaged those photos by sending radiation from her mind. See UFO Contact from the Pleiades - A Supplimentary Investigation Report, pgs. 84-88, 1982. And of course theWCUFO.

2.3 Pendulum UFO
 



Around 52:50 min. (Part 1), MH claims that Rhal Zahi has concluded that beamship video where it moves around a supposed large fir tree in the distance in pendulum fashion to be a large object (in the order several meters), just as specified by Meier. MH further claimed that Rhal Zahi also proved that this craft existed in two places in one same frame(s).

As it turns out, filmmaker and researcher Daniel Drasin has already refuted Rhal Zahi's pseduo-arguments on beamship being in two places in one frame, which of course would never be mentioned by MH. Drasin has claimed that there is strong evidence that this film has been tampered by splicing and joining. Also, lets not forget that the video which Rhal Zahi analyzed is of very poor quality and is not original but several generations away which means that any evidence of hoax can in theory be erased. Also important is Bruce Maccabbe's extensive analysis done on this pendulum beamship video, where he concludes that a small model the size of a foot likely has been used by Meier. Also look into Phil Langdon's work on this video.

MH at around 55:45 min. (part 1) has claimed that it took many times for Phil Langdon to recreate Meier's photos while Meier only took his photos once. How does MH know that Meier only took the photos once? In fact nobody is sure that Meier took all the photos and videos only once. No one has ever seen him live taking photos and developing the same. The hoax theory, that has good supporting evidence, suggests that Meier along with his accomplices may have staged his shots several times on location and used dark room equipment to erase any signs of fraud. Meier then would claim a completely different date for his photo and video sessions and publish only copies that are several generations away from the originals, so no amount of analysis can detect any signs of fraud - which is exactly what has happened with the Lee Elders-Wendelle Stevens investigation. 

source: ufoprophet.blogspot

Weekly hot post

8-Year-Old Child Passed Away While Having Sex with Her 40-Year-Old Husband on their Wedding Night

Helen Cassan Dra   News   21 March 2017

While most 8-year-old girls are still playing with their favorite toys and spending the night with their best friends, in…

Amazing!!!

Jason Aiello   Quizzes   13 March 2017

Laugh together

Jason Aiello   Funny   13 March 2017

The Earth Will Be Destroyed In October 2017 – And The Rich Are Already Building Bunkers

Helen Cassan Dra   Shocks   13 March 2017

This is the main idea in researcher David Meade’s ‘Planet X: The 2017 Arrival’ according to who there are ‘overwhelming…